Curse

Vanquisher · Sep 11, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

You can succeed in PvE with 0 skills on your bar if you got your hero's and hench set up, but would that be any fun? Hell no it isn't. We have just as much "right" to the skill as PvP players do, I don't see why you don't understand this.

I do, actually. I just don't think that nerfing and buffing skills so they're suitable in PvE regardless of the implications they have on PvP is the way to stimulate a competitive environment. Skills that are nerfed are nerfed for the simple reason that they are too powerful. The fact people don't want powerful skills nerfed because it makes it slightly more difficult to beat the AI of mobs in this game is not a fair viewpoint in regards to game balance.

twicky_kid · Sep 11, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Vanq you are arguing with the same people that threatened to quit the game (and a lot did) after the AoE AI update so they couldn't meteor shower every mob on the game to death. If it was up to PvE every skill on the game would be buffed to infinity.

Is Grenth derv imba in PvE? No its not. Did it need to be nerfed in PvP? At that time yes it did.

PvP and PvE mechanics work different. A 100+ dmg skill in PvE is just a chink in the armor. In PvP its down right deadly if left unchecked.

PvP has been dead since the release of NF. The game has become so defensive that its boring as hell to play. The reason I never liked HA was because every build had more def than offense. Just about every build relied on spikes to kill a target. GvG has now turned into the same steaming turd that HA used to be with alter maps.

brian78wa · Sep 11, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mai

PvErs cry about anything that remotely forces them to think outside the box. Look at GW:EN section and tell me otherwise, even with your overpowered PvE skills you'll try to find ways to make even the most easy task/dungeon seem like an impossible task and try to tell ANET that's it not the player but the game that is difficult.

PvErs are the majority in this game and they are the most vocal about any change to their homogenized game.(soul reap change anyone?)

Soul reaping was changed primarily due to the PvPer N/Mo and infinite energy to heal with.
Its the PvPers that whined about that not the PvErs. Oh no he has so much energy to heal with boo hoo. Heres a thought. Kill the healers.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I personally disagree, I don't feel any PvP-oriented changes have adversely affected me, including soul reaping. I notice that as a Necro in PvE,I have to manage and monitor my energy more closely but not to an extent that I suffer because of it.

I personally dont suffer from the changes because I can adapt to them But there are alot of PvErs that cant which was my point. I was making a counter point to the one saying that PvErs are the ones that cause these skill nerfs when its actually the PvPers that whine about all the builds.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Maybe instead of wanting everything to be gifted to you on a platter, you could, you know, try to actually work a little bit, for things? OH NO SOUL REAPING NERF! Do you not understand how incredibly broken SR was as a primary attribute when coupled with Spirits, or are you just being ignorant because you feel so utterly incompetant without a way to abuse things?

I dont want anything handed to me. I work for everything so dont post like you know anything about me. I was making a counter point to someone saying that PvErs get protected with skill balances when in all actuality its the PvErs that get the brunt of the nerfs. IM not the one that was abusing SR PVPERS were.
Most of the nerfs were based on PVERS abusing them. And PVERS whining that the teams were too powerful. Any build can be countered just find it and stop crying about it.

Mod Edit: Dude, seriously. There is an edit button, use it. Triple posts = bad

Servant of Kali · Sep 11, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian78wa

Soul reaping was changed primarily due to the PvPer N/Mo and infinite energy to heal with.
Its the PvPers that whined about that not the PvErs

Of course PvErs didn't whine about it when it was THEM who used it. I'm sure monsters in PvE would complain about such overpowerdness thrown against them, but well you see, they are AI so they could not.

Soul Reaping was 10x more overpowered in PvE than in PvP, but PvErs love overpowered stuff since it's not used against them. That's why I'm all for giving weak PvErs overpowered skills which kill all enemies in sight. Im perfectly aware some people cant learn how to play the game with balanced skills and attributes, and need blatantly overpowered stuff like old Soul Reaping.

Chicken Ftw · Sep 11, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Any build can be countered just find it and stop crying about it.

I'm amazed at the number of people who continue to think counterable = balanced. Hf with your build wars.

Also, if you don't even PvP, who do you think you are to be commenting on the ease of countering things? Armchair theorists ftl.

Sab · Sep 11, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

And killing the healer you say? Damn, I've been playing for two years and I hadn't thought of that. You should give PvP lessons because you sure learned me good.

On a more serious note, if you want a proper answer as to why "just counter it" is a horrifyingly bad argument, I'd be happy to explain.

brian78wa · Sep 11, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

I'm amazed at the number of people who continue to think counterable = balanced. Hf with your build wars.

Also, if you don't even PvP, who do you think you are to be commenting on the ease of countering things? Armchair theorists ftl.

Who says I dont PvP??
I stopped PvPing long ago when it stopped being fun.
When all I would hear is whine after whine from the other PvPers.
I used to PvP all the time so again people need to stop making posts like the know the person. You know nothing about me you dont know what I play.

I also never said that = balance. My whole point was just a counter point to someone saying that PvErs are protected in the skill balances when thats just not true.

Vanquisher · Sep 11, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian78wa

Soul reaping was changed primarily due to the PvPer N/Mo and infinite energy to heal with.
Its the PvPers that whined about that not the PvErs. Oh no he has so much energy to heal with boo hoo. Heres a thought. Kill the healers.

When they have 6 or 7 healers, with unlimitted energy, and a really strong spike, that becomes a big harder than you'd think. Maybe you should actually understand the benefits of the build before commenting?

Quote:

Any build can be countered just find it and stop crying about it.

Do you have any idea how many build combinations that aren't terrible are in this game? Do you really, honestly believe that people don't think about counters? Are you so naive as to think that people haven't tried such things?

around · Sep 11, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian78wa

Soul reaping was changed primarily due to the PvPer N/Mo and infinite energy to heal with.
Its the PvPers that whined about that not the PvErs. Oh no he has so much energy to heal with boo hoo. Heres a thought. Kill the healers.

This is super retarded. How do you kill a healer with infinite energy to spend on healing spells?

lyra_song · Sep 11, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

How to make skills balanced in PvE and PvP at the same time.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10170019

.-.

brian78wa · Sep 11, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Of course PvErs didn't whine about it when it was THEM who used it. I'm sure monsters in PvE would complain about such overpowerdness thrown against them, but well you see, they are AI so they could not.

Soul Reaping was 10x more overpowered in PvE than in PvP, but PvErs love overpowered stuff since it's not used against them. That's why I'm all for giving weak PvErs overpowered skills which kill all enemies in sight. Im perfectly aware some people cant learn how to play the game with balanced skills and attributes, and need blatantly overpowered stuff like old Soul Reaping.

AGAIN for the 1000th time. My point was only a counter point to the one saying that PvErs are protected with the skill nerfs. When they are NOT.

mafia cyborg · Sep 11, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

back to reviving PvP

i still think 1vs1 is what can save gw pvp.
people in pve are really enjoyin the norm arenas and polymock......anet should learn from this. its the kind of pvp ppl can immediately get into and enjoy.
team pvp games are not so fun for everyone.....i for one hate them.....and they require to have a consistent group of ppl to practice with......which 90% gw population dont have. moreover planning with others what to do is not my idea of fun. i'd rather make my own thing.

ideas for 1vs1

-random 1vs1 (so u got to take an all round build that works vs all different professions)
-profession 1vs1 ( mesmers vs mesmers, rangers vs rangers, etc)
-duel 1vs1 (u against someone of your choice)

brian78wa · Sep 11, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

This is super retarded. How do you kill a healer with infinite energy to spend on healing spells?

Ive been in many HA teams that have plowed through these type of teams. theres something called shutdown. You know interupts, diversion,Blackout ect.

around · Sep 11, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Oh, right, I've never thought of that.

HAY GUISE BLACKOUT THEIR NO. 1 HEALER DIVERT THEIR NO. 4 HEALER.

WHAT ABOUT NO. 2 3 5 6 7 8?

Vel · Sep 11, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

The problem stemmed from very very beginning...since beta I would say. In early days, the game was little known to most. But, early starters took advantage of existing loopholes and ranked up thus, introducing elitism. However, ANET had several several chances to fix it.

ANET could have made rank character based, giving you more idea to what a person play the most. r11 iWay warrior with a changed toon name is not a very good monk who got r11 playing monk. Correct?

The main thing that killed PvP is "so-called" PvP players community; their attitude played the biggest role supported by ANET's stupidity in promoting the idea PvP>>PvE. ANET should have embraced the fact from the get-go that both are two different styles of gameplay and cater to these two communities differently but, fairly. They tried to cater to the both the same way and resulted in a failure.

- Vel

around · Sep 11, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

ANET could have made rank charcater based, giving you more idea to what a person play the most. r11 iWay warrior with a changed toon name is not a very good monk who got r11 playing monk. Correct?

No, since I know for a fact many top GvG'ers are easily able to adapt to any position. Such as Fenix. Fenix is my hero. I wish I could be like him.

Quote:

The main thing that killed PvP is "so-called" PvP players community; their attitude played the biggest role supported by ANET's stupidity in promoting the idea PvP>>PvE. ANET should have embraced the fact from the get-go that both are two different styles of gameplay and cater to these two communities differently but, fairly. They tried to cater to the both the same way and resulted in a failure.

Owait, you mean abusing AI is harder than playing against actual people who think? I never thought of that.

brian78wa · Sep 11, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Oh, right, I've never thought of that.

HAY GUISE BLACKOUT THEIR NO. 1 HEALER DIVERT THEIR NO. 4 HEALER.

WHAT ABOUT NO. 2 3 5 6 7 8?

Lol like I said Ive been in many groups that have no problem with these builds.
Seriously if you cant think of a way to beat them then thats your problem not mine. But that isnt even my damn point.

Im not even going to repeat my point because ive said it 100 times already.

mafia cyborg · Sep 11, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

How to make skills balanced in PvE and PvP at the same time.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10170019

.-.

THIS THEARD IS NOT ABOUT PVE IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.
skills can only be balanced in a pvp environment cos thats where skills are compared vs each other.
it's maths. if u want imbalanced skills in pve (i don't ) go cry somewhere else.

lyra_song · Sep 11, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

THIS THEARD IS NOT ABOUT PVE IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.
skills can only be balanced in a pvp environment cos thats where skills are compared vs each other.
it's maths. if u want imbalanced skills in pve (i don't ) go cry somewhere else.

Went COMPLETELY over your head didn't I? Dont you get it?

Reviving PvP involves balancing the skills to make sure the competition is interesting.

But balancing PvP skills without pissing off PvErs is impossible. Hence the idea of adding PvE modifiers to skills so they maintain their ability to be balanced for PvP while still being usable for PvErs.

If Anet can balance PVP skills without worrying about backlash from PvErs, they have more freedom, and an easier time making decisions. Faster rebalances, less stale meta. While at the same time, PvErs are unaffected.

BOTH SIDES WIN.

Now why dont you sit down and think about that? When you're done thinking, i expect an apology.

Chicken Ftw · Sep 11, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

back to reviving PvP

i still think 1vs1 is what can save gw pvp.
people in pve are really enjoyin the norm arenas and polymock......anet should learn from this. its the kind of pvp ppl can immediately get into and enjoy.
team pvp games are not so fun for everyone.....i for one hate them.....and they require to have a consistent group of ppl to practice with......which 90% gw population dont have. moreover planning with others what to do is not my idea of fun. i'd rather make my own thing.

ideas for 1vs1

-random 1vs1 (so u got to take an all round build that works vs all different professions)
-profession 1vs1 ( mesmers vs mesmers, rangers vs rangers, etc)
-duel 1vs1 (u against someone of your choice)

1v1 is a horrible idea. It will not save PvP in any way, shape or form, it will just appeal to the RA/AB scrubs that are one of PvP's cancers anyway. The warriors who go straight for other warriors, sins asking for 1v1s etc. Guild Wars is a team game, and real PvP (not RA, HB, AB, Aspenwood) involves teamwork.

@Lyra: While interesting, the chances of Anet implementing any such thing are abysmal at best, and even if they did, it's too little, too late.